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It's not great that they found starlink terminals on Russian drones (they've since tried to lock them down more).

These should be export controlled and geo-locked as they are arguably much more powerful than any missile.

Starlink recently implemented new rules for satellites that travel more than 100mph. Service is deactivated unless they have a valid government ID and an aircraft's tail number attached to the account. While both can be faked, you could arguably correlated a provided tail number with ADS-B data because anyone with a Starlink is likely also broadcasting ADS-B. But it also provides a bit of 1:1 correlation on satellites and there is a finite number of tail numbers out there.

They also jacked up the subscription price which caused thousands of actual pilots to cancel their service. So expect a flood of used Starlink Minis to enter the market soon.

I thought Starlink doesn't allow you to move your terminal at all with the basic plan, and there's a premium plan where you can move it, but still can't use it, unless you stop?

SpaceX already does geo-lock them to an extend. But the terminals are exported to so many countries that any meaningful controls are impossible.

Terminals in Ukraine are whitelisted (with whitelist being supplied by the Ukrainian MoD). Meaningful controls are possible, it's what led to the ukrainian forces advancing and liberating territory recently.

You missed my point. It's impossible to meaningfully control the export of physical terminals. But as I pointed out above, SpaceX has already been doing some geo-locking.

I did not. Whitelisting means Russia can not buy terminals in UAE and use them in Ukraine. Because the terminals in UAE are not whitelisted to be used in Ukraine. Therefore, it's possible to control the export of terminals.

The terminal knows where it is at all times.

I know this is a meme but for those at home the whole point of a war is to cross over the front line into the opponent's territory and capture it. If your comms are disabled when you cross the front you can't really fight. So "just disable Starlink within Russian territory" does not solve anything.

You can have a hybrid approach - deny access in that area by default but have a secure way to whitelist specific terminals for short periods (mission duration)

Simple solutions: block all Starlink terminals that aren’t whitelisted upon entering Russian territory or Ukrainian conflict zones.

This will prevent Russians importing Starlink terminals and then deploying them in Ukraine.

Work with Ukrainians to whitelist all their terminals.

The Starlink terminal can't know based on only its position which side it's being used by. Equipment is often used in enemy territory.

That is a tiny minority of the use. The vast majority of Russian use has been on Russian controlled land.

Yes but the problem is that the battle lines are fluid and the drones are obviously aiming for the Ukrainian side.

I think what's actually funnier is that the satellite shooting the laser has to know where the terminal is with pin point accuracy too. So it's pretty easy to cut off targeting to a vast chunk of the planet.

The sats don't use lasers to communicate with terminals, just regular radio waves, they only use lasers for inter-satellite communication

Starlink cells are ~15 miles wide BTW.

It knows this because it knows where it isn't. By subtracting where it is from where it isn't

I understand this reference

Not only that. It seems to have been more Russian starlink terminals than Ukrainian ones.

Nowadays Starlink terminals to operate in Ukraine they have to be approved so right now Russians cannot waste them anymore on drones as it's much harder getting one working (in the past they have been).

Especially in light of that early war elon confession about disabling terminals mid Ukraine op.

Another not great data point is https://militarnyi.com/en/news/ukraine-starlink-data-traffic...

"Starlink satellite traffic in Ukraine fell by about 75% after SpaceX shut down its terminals in the occupied territories of the country."

By now it came to light russians for example had starlinks on every assaulting tank in addition to long range drones.

I noticed this the other day with the Anthropic upholding its redline. I think this is the first time in history where consumer tech exceeds military tech. Historically, it was always military tech trickles down to consumer.

Consumer tech "exceeded" military tech when the first consumer-grade FPV drones started destroying tanks and bombing trenches in 2022.

Exactly as cyberpunk books predicted, the technology is so advanced that all you need to create a weapon is sold in a toy store.

weren't the first instances of that. you could argue that places like /r/combatfootage are the consumer 'tech' that leads some of this, but it wasn't 2022.

This is footage of a drone strike against personnel in a building from July 2022: https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/wbb1yh/ua_su...

This apparently has more footage from 2022: https://www.reddit.com/r/UADroneArchive/comments/11nxhh4/ua_...

This is a completely unfounded conspiracy theory, but I think it’s a fun one. I think Elon Musk is running these companies the same way that he is a top ranked Diablo player. He just plays one on TV. The decision makers in the military industrial complex pushed black programs into a group of private company so they could scale and cut red tape while shedding contractors with really serious performance problems. So now a faction of “the insiders“ control space launches, social media, and have a backup AI company. There are less successful programs like Tesla for getting cattle like me to drive an electric car that can be remotely driven into a median or disabled if someone in Bethesda decides that they don’t like you. Also there is a not so successful attempt to revolutionize tunnel logistics for defense. So what I’m saying is that this is military tech, they just pretend these are private companies run by a Tony Stark showman. I can’t support this with evidence, but it makes for a good story.

hahaha, the conspiracy i always joke about is when the first time a starlink satellite deorbiting is going to kill someone 'accidentally'.

Conspiracy theories aren't very productive. But the one thing that continues to bother me is how there is no great explanation for why TSLA is still worth much. It's a shrinking car company that is failing to execute at FSD and says it's going to make humanoid robots instead of cars.

There is no good reason TSLA should be valued any more than 10% of its current valuation, and even that would be rich. There is a fine argument it should be worth 3-4% of what it currently is.

It is almost like there's a connection between PayPal, Elon Musks fortunes, and crypto.

I still wonder who Satoshi really was. I wonder how Microstrategy remains solvent.

The vision for the future elon gives us (exploring the stars, human augmentation, advanced AI likely leading to elimination of suffering) is a heaven-like vision in a western world where most people don’t believe in anything much, and many of our leaders and intellectuals are misanthropes who think having kids is selfish.

I don’t care what tesla’s quarterly sales are, I’m supporting elon’s vision.

That vision is a lie, and it's a distraction. It is taking advantage of the emptiness that they themselves created, and now they are making you angry to distract you while they rob you. I sincerely wish you well in life, don't pick the wrong heroes.

Whomever it is, was, there are a handful of individuals still holding block controls on the ORIGINAL chain... that could topple ANY valuation. Those who sold around $0.32/USD would be happy to know that chasing the dragon would have made them as mad as the leads on TV shows.

While there is a massive US advantage in space launch, it should be used to the maximum. It's not going to last forever (while perhaps, sufficiently long that China fizzles out demographically before it's gone).

To be honest, I think US demographic trends are a lot worse than whatever is going on with China.

I mean most of us knew from day 1 this would get militarized as soon as possibly can... the same goes for spacehip (large payloads delivery to battlefields) as well and neuralink (during interrogations).

same for "save the whales" PlanetLabs

I was early at Planet (and fresh out of college) and the transition internally towards govt money was very painful for the bright eyed save-the-world hackers internally.

The initial technical architecture was aligned with broad good (low res, global, daily, openly available), but the shift towards selling high res satellite capabilities directly to governments has been tough to see.

Their role of providing a public ledger is still a net good thing IMO, and i doubt Planet is adding much increased capability to the US war fighter (they have way better stuff). Harder to say for their deals with other governments that have fewer native space capabilities.

Please elaborate, this sounds like a fun weekend rabbit-hole.

this is very difficult to address with intellectual honesty.

It seems obvious to me that people of conscience and standing have built plenty of the most cutting edge tech of this age. Yet those people are structurally embedded within business and government. Far-reaching technology is one thing, but satellite networks are especially impactful in many ways for both real time intelligence gathering and also building a record of analytic data over time.

So, PlanetLabs.. without a doubt, completely sincere in Doves reading save-the-whales data over the entire Earth. And also, connected "at the hip" to the US Federal Government. Does the US Federal Government work diligently to save-the-whales? You be the judge.

PlanetLabs is business, with investors. That is the horse that brought the endeavor to its current state. Larry Ellison seems to run a very stable business, in the same locales, and that seems to be just fine with investors. Is there any way that PlanetLabs would not be subject to the same investor pressures and direction, lawsuits and governance letters, that Oracle is subject to? seems likely that lots of the same actors are close at hand, from the beginning.

SO there is tragedy and comedy, stock price and hiring practices, technical capacity and brilliance. The mission is the message ? feedback here seems likely to escalate, so let's set a tone of informed debate, and recall that after the typing, almost nothing will actually change in practice.. just an educated guess.

The US Federal government has done a lot to save the whales.

https://www.fisheries.noaa.gov/national/marine-mammal-protec...

Krill baby krill?

The current administration is openly extractive without the fig leaves of old.

I don’t think we can look forward to nature - whether it’s national parks or marine parks or just being a non polluting neighbor - getting any priority or protection from now onwards.

Canada will continue to casually choose the pro-nature option when presented.

Yeah, they are using this tech 'round the backside to track subs.

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China has started to become the voice of reason in an increasingly volatile world. If they can build a peaceful relationship with Taiwan without military involvement where both countries can continue to prosper we really will have a new super power. The world needs this more than ever as the US becomes increasingly radicalized by the federal government.

They're hardly a voice of reason, they criticize the US so everyone rallies around them, but they're just taking advantage of the situation like anyone else would. It's all optics. I think the era of the superpower is already over.

They can't build a peaceful relationship with taiwan, it would hurt the PRC if they did that. They need an point of contention for political reasons there, but taiwan has seen what has become of hong kong. They have historical ties but since the 1940's much like the Koreas their culture and society has developed separately. Peace is possible, if the PRC can accept a separate independent Taiwan, but they won't for the same reason putin doesn't like countries like ukraine nearby, that have a significant military and economic advantage to be outside its sphere of influence.

China is like a carefully crafted house of cards, long term planning means they will likely establish a long lasting prosperous nation, but that's only possible if contemporary situations don't force them into desperate actions, like invading taiwan, a military conflict with the US,etc.. right now their sources of oil from iran and venezuela are being cut off, they've been heavily investing in renewables predicting this exact situation, and that's what I mean by long term, they're a few decades away from the fruition of most of their longterm plans. Xi won't be alive to see it, but he needs to make a mark in their history too. The fate of china depends on Xi's patience, and the ability of China to endure temporary economic hardship.

They've been building alliances like BRICS for the same reasons, they're grandstanding now also to avoid a direct confrontation with the US.

The US isn't increasingly being radicalized, it is beyond that. it is right a strange mix of kakistocracy and kleptocracy. On one hand, the US's hegemony is practically over, on the other hand who will fill in the void? certainly not China. Even things like the UN are not a given anymore. The best outcome is one that avoids conflict between countries with large economies and militaries.

BRICS isn't an alliance. They have never agreed on anything significant or taken any meaningful coordinated action.

It is similar to G8, and like I said, they're been building one, I didn't say they're completed the building. But current events are helping with that effort.

Nah, they're not building anything. China and India will never agree on substantive issues. South Africa is a failed state and Russia may be headed in the direction. BRICS is a total joke.

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Are you new to this site? I ask because your comment is entirely against the decorum we try to maintain here. This is a place for meaningful discussion (on topics pertaining to engineering and science in particular), it is not like Reddit where we hurl insults on one another in some apparent attempt to ratio people we disagree with.

Meaningful discussion. Bike shedding, mostly. And illiterates hiding behind llm-generated content. I’m new to this site, sure. Stop impeding my „freedom of speech”.

This is a common attitude among Americans, to see other countries as a beacon of reason and even contemplate moving there, when theirs is moderately frustrating and has plenty of constructive reform available to do at the person’s level of influence. It was popular during the Cold War to fantasize about living in the USSR, and today, the fantasy is typically Canada, Europe, Russia or China depending on politics and level of interest in technology.

> If they can build a peaceful relationship with Taiwan without military involvement

Xi fucked this up because he’s a dictator.

Taiwanese polling on national identity was mixed until the 2010s [1]. Left at peace, it would have probably voted for reintegration in our lifetimes. But then Xi decided the post-Mao system of political competition within the CCP was inconvenient, launched his wolf warriors on all of China’s neighbors, annexed Hong Kong prematurely and started warmongering with Taiwan, all of which has lead to an avoidable but now-permanent polarization across the strait.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_on_Taiwanese_i...

China may have been a voice of reason (relatively) during the Deng Xiaoping times. Under comrade Xi, China is a voice of something different, alas.

An odd take on a regime that has known and significant human rights violations. I’m not saying the US is doing great right now, but China is not something to look up to.

Neither is the US. Neither it was in the last 25 years. Today’s USA looks like Russia with a cowboy at the helm. But what a cowboy that is. An offspring of an immigrant with an immigrant wife who barely speaks English. Comedy shit show. Maybe if he shut up for a bit and let the army act, it would look different. But no, they guy has to blabber. The saddest thing is, it’s not Trump, it’s half of US population.

Power is power.

The US has due process, judicial transparency, and free speech. There are still rich people that operate above the system, but they're largely still accountable and the free press can crucify them.

Authoritarian regimes have execution vans, no freedom of the press, no free speech, and a paranoid leadership that will jail or kill anyone who threatens their power. They lock citizens inside and prohibit capital flight.

No system is perfect, but democracy is strictly better.

I love China and the Chinese people, but the CCP is a drag on both.

I'm no fan of the party in power in the US, but I can campaign and speak out against them. I can raise money to oppose them. I can band together with like minded individuals to protest. That's superior to unilateral oppression.

"they're largely still accountable and the free press can crucify them".

Cute.

> I'm no fan of the party in power in the US, but I can campaign and speak out against them. I can raise money to oppose them. I can band together with like minded individuals to protest.

You can. Just not in any way that matters. And you won’t. Because that takes organization and all existing organizations that matter are captured by the system and novel ones would quickly be.

Perfect example: The US just launched a disastrous and illegal (both in their own and the UN system) war at the behest of a foreign power/influential minority against the will of its people and against its geopolitical interest. And the “opposition” does less than nothing. There is little anti-war protest and none of consquence.

Compare it with 2003 and earlier wars: The American public has been all but neutralized as a political force. Not that it could do much even then.

> That's superior to unilateral oppression.

You prefer the illusion of power.

> You can. Just not in any way that matters. And you won’t.

I’ve gotten language I wrote passed into state and federal law. The bottom line is a lot of people are too busy, lazy or nihilistic to call their electeds and show up to create political pressure. That’s unfortunate. But it also means that the payoff for relatively small amounts of effort are huge.

Wow, nativism from the left is wild to see. Obama was the son of an immigrant vs the grandchild of one for Trump. There’s a lot of valid criticism of Melania but claiming it’s because she “can’t” speak English is wild (she speaks with an accent but so what).

I’m tired of attacks on personal characteristics that have no bearing (or are even outside their control) rather than on legitimate things like ideas, temperament, decision making, track record. Do better.

It’s a shill/troll account. Flag and move on.

Swipe the dirt under the carpet. For what we know there’s no difference between “throwaway” and “jumping criss cross”. You’re hiding behind a nickname, too!

The US is doing much, much worse. This is no compliment to China. The US

* murdered a political leader the were negotiating with in Iran after using the military to kidnap the leader of Venezuela.

* is credibly threatening military allies in Greenland, countries with which it has mutual protection treaties and is credibly threatening, without casus belli, to militarily invade another weaker neighbor, Cuba.

* spent months threatening to invade Canada. This wasn't trolling, it is forgotten with their strategy of constant chaos, but they really tried and Canada has made alliances with other countries as a result

* is actively murdering thousands of people in Haiti via a Republican allied private military contractor

* is actively subverting domestic elections

* is building and filling concentration camps with people who have committed no other crime than illegal residency, without due process, and giving them substandard care, leading to many deaths in custody.

* has masked secret police detaining people without due process and deporting them to foreign prison camps, frequently in violation of judicial orders

* has masked secret police arresting citizen because of their nationality and because they are not carrying "their papers"

* is using the power of government to force mergers and ownership changes of corporations to political allies

* is using the power of the government to hide an embarrassing a criminal conspiracy involving leadership in the country, in violation of the US Constitution, since it was ordered by Congress.

* has completely disregarded conflict of interest laws which the leader of the country is using to enrich himself and his family at completely unprecedented levels in US history.

I could go on, but China is a more ethical superpower by a lot of measures and that is a very painful conclusion to state.

This is not even touching on the subject of competency.

The internationally accepted US hegemony and the privileged role of the US dollar was the result of almost a century of goodwill. It is now gone, and then some. The next two decades will not be pleasant for regular Americans who have grown accustomed to, and frankly taken for granted, the level of privilege they had.

edit: and speak of the devil, and competency: https://mitsloan.mit.edu/ideas-made-to-matter/what-happens-w... just made it to the top of the front page. Even with everything I wrote above, I had neglected to include that the US lies about embarrassing economic data now due to political intererence.

edit 2: this didn't even make the front page and would have been the biggest scandal in modern American history: https://www.wsj.com/tech/tiktok-deal-fee-trump-administratio... "Trump Administration Set to Receive $10 Billion Fee for Brokering TikTok Deal"

They have the most economic output, the highest quality technology, and the sanest voices of reason. It's too bad they're a dictatorship. If they can fix that I might have to move there.

They are supporting and encouraging Russia’s war against Ukraine. They also provide diplomatic cover and economic support for the Iranian regime. They promote nationalist radicalism and harassment of nonconformists on foreign campuses. They ruthlessly suppress dissent, or even just non Han ethic identity and implement racist eugenic policies in their regions.

The comment you replied to referred to Taiwan as existing alongside China as a country. That’s a crime in mainland China.

The Usa does similar things across the world. Here I swapped for the Usa.

> They are supporting and encouraging Israel’s war against Iran and Palestine. They also provide diplomatic cover and economic support for the Israeli regime. They promote nationalist radicalism and harassment of nonconformists on foreign campuses (Columbia protests). They ruthlessly suppress dissent (you must support the troops, using chemical weapons on protestors), or even just non White ethic identity and implement racist policies in their regions (rounding up immigrants without due process).

Do you speak Mandarin? Because upthread there’s a guy railing against Melania because she speaks English with an accent and I suspect you’ll get a similar reception in China.

Also, if you think racism in America is a problem, ooo boy do I want to see your experience as a foreigner in a largely homogenous country that has little immigration.

I think China would say the last one is the reason for the first three, and point to democracy as a root cause for the problems facing the West.

>They have the most economic output

Only because they have such a large population. Their economic output per person (GDP per capita) is only around $15k, similar to Turkey. And they've hit a severe aging population problem that other East Asian countries only hit when their GDP per capita was around $30k; they're getting old before they get rich. Unless they dramatically increase immigration or birthrates (now less than 1.0), it's likely that even by 2100 Chinese people still won't enjoy the same standard of living (GDP per capita of around $80k) that Americans enjoy today.

Why is Chinese army propaganda on this site? It's not news that the PLA will oppose technology that gives the US military an advantage.

CSIS is republishing work from PLA affiliated writers from PLA affiliated think tanks, published an a PLA affiliated journal because it does in fact capture aspects of internal PLA thinking. This article is from 2023, it's not written in the context of the current administrations policies and rhteroic. While we can always be certain that there are aspects of external facing PR/propaganda, we also should consider "how does China view the militarization of Starlink and Space".

And to that end, we can clearly see that the PLA sees Space Dominance as being strategically destabilizing. They see threats to their ability to disperse and hide their nuclear launch systems.

In fact, from a 2026 lens, the best way to read this paper would be "the PLA has mapped out its vulnerabilities, and all of its risk control and escalation options (basically its suggestions in the conclusions) are basically off the table. Therefore, it's very obvious that the PLA will attempt to compensate through simultaneously achieving its own space based capability similar to Starlink, develop additional ways to hold US strategic assets (read nuclear strike platforms) at risk, and find asymmetric means of deterrence".

EDIT: Just made a connection in my head - there's been a lot of news about Chinese nuclear arsenal increases in recent years, with a uptick starting around 2023, and the DoD estimating a rough tripling from 2025-2035. I suspect these developments might be connected.

EDIT2: I think to summarize what I think would be important take away from reading this paper is that while the most immediate examples of militarized Starlink use are all very tactical level (thinking about drones in Ukraine), this piece clearly signals that the PLA also believes that Starlink militarization poses treats at the strategic (read nuclear) level. And therefore, if we think purely in terms of tactical/operational capabilities, we may be caught off guard by certain reactions by the PLA/China.

I don't think that Starlink affects nuclear deterrence / the MAD doctrine in any meaningful way. But it does seriously affect "conventional" warfare. And China is rather visibly preparing for a conventional war.

I believe it's exactly that thinking that CSIS was trying to check when they chose to translate and publish this specific article. They are trying to get analysts and policy makers to think through, and make an active decision on if they believe that China will treat military/militarized mega constellations as destabilizing in a nuclear/strategic sense.

It's fair to decide that that is not major factor, but it should be an informed decision. It requires looking at the nuclear risk issues that the piece raises, and finding reasons to dismiss them.

Even the best space comms system does not make your ICBMs invisible to your adversary, and does not allow you to shoot down your adversary's return salvo of ICBMs. Hence the mutually assured destruction is not going away, and the side starting an all-out nuclear war still cannot win. I don't see how anything what's available now changes this; do you?

What might be destabilizing would be long-range hypersonic missiles that fly relatively low (30 km above the surface, not 1000 km), so they can't be easily detected until it's pretty late, and can arrive from multiple directions. This is exactly the kind of weapon that is China apparently developing, BTW.

> The Center for Strategic and International Studies (CSIS) is a bipartisan, nonprofit policy research organization dedicated to advancing practical ideas to address the world’s greatest challenges.

Sorry, may I get more information on why this is considered Chinese army propaganda?

My understanding is that CSIS (https://www.csis.org/about) is an US based organisation that provides analysis on topics which include Chinese organisations/military.

Not specific to this article, but I generally like to find third party sources to confirm or deny the "bipartisan" and "nonprofit" parts of their about page. I've seen too many where that turned out to be false.

Just today I tried an experiment asking the YouTube Ai question bot "where on the political compass are the opinions expressed in this video?"

The chatbot couldn't get past the fact that the video said it was non-partisan and if they said it it must be true.

Csis is everything but neutral.

Did you read the first sentence?

> In this piece, two researchers from PLA-affiliated National University of Defense Technology argue that

When you were a kid, did you stop listening when your parents said “Santa”, or did you keep listening in order to glean useful information from their propoganda, even knowing that Santa isn't real?

Thanks; I missed that and almost sullied my mind reading an argument formulated by a potential adversary to the United States of America.

Did you stop reading at the first sentence??

Yes. It is the equivalent of reading a technical review of a product by the product owner

It makes a change from the US Military propaganda I suppose.

Interpret: China is a CSIS project aimed at facilitating a more nuanced understanding of global strategic issues through a library of translated materials matched with expert commentary.

Americans are so propagandized and paranoid that they see a DC blob foreign policy think tank translating Chinese PLA source documents and start wondering if there's a nefarious plot afoot. "Understanding the enemy?! That sounds like an axis of evil conspiracy!"

Last I attended a CSIS event, it was filled with US intelligentsia (including the famed Zbigniew Brzezinsky, Polish spellings be damned).

But does that mean they are wrong?

Certainly not. Some propaganda is made up, some just highlights some convenient truth.

Trouble is it's hard to tell the difference.

From whose perspective?

Usually yes.

I haven't read it fully but it doesn't seem to be promoting any sort of falsehoods. As an American I consider any reliance on Starlink and the thoroughly compromised Elon Musk to be a weakness rather than a strength.

Americans propaganda has completely brainwashed you